Who are Edward F. Kelly and Dr. Terence Palmer and what stances did they take on Myers?
"Edward F. Kelly and Dr. Terence Palmer are two of the most prominent contemporary scholars who have revived and expanded the legacy of Frederic W.H. Myers, each in distinct but complementary ways. Both treat Myers not as a historical curiosity, but as a visionary whose framework offers a viable alternative to reductionist models of mind."
"🧠 Edward F. Kelly
"Role: Neuroscientist and co-author of Irreducible Mind: Toward a Psychology for the 21st Century"
"Stance on Myers:
"Kelly sees Myers as a foundational figure in a non-reductive psychology—one that treats consciousness as irreducible to brain function. In Irreducible Mind, Kelly and colleagues argue that Myers, along with William James, was on the verge of constructing a correct model of the psyche: one that naturally accommodates phenomena like:
- Near-death experiences
- Genius-level creativity
- Mystical states
- Telepathy and mediumship"
"Kelly endorses Myers’ 'transmission' or 'filter' theory of consciousness, where the brain is not the producer of mind, but its transmitter or limiter. He believes Myers’ Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death remains one of the most important—and underappreciated—texts in the history of psychology."
"🔮 Dr. Terence Palmer
"Role: Psychologist, hypnotherapist, and spirit release practitioner; author of The Science of Spirit Possession"
"Stance on Myers:
"Palmer explicitly builds his clinical and theoretical work on Myers’ framework. He argues that Myers provides the only unified scientific model capable of explaining spirit possession across cultures and disciplines. In his doctoral thesis and subsequent publications, Palmer:
- Applies Myers’ model to Spirit Release Therapy (SRT), a clinical alternative to religious exorcism
- Treats possession as a natural and normal phenomenon within the continuum of human experience
- Advocates for a revised epistemology that bridges subjective experience and scientific inquiry"
"Palmer sees Myers as a pioneer whose work was unjustly discarded by mainstream science, and he calls for a 21st-century rehabilitation of Myers’ ideas to address the limitations of psychiatry and anthropology."
"Together, Kelly and Palmer treat Myers not as a relic, but as a prophet of a psychology yet to be fully born—one that honors the full spectrum of human experience, from the mystical to the pathological, from the embodied to the posthumous."
"Would you like a comparative map of how Kelly and Palmer each interpret Myers’ concept of the subliminal self? Or perhaps a synthesis of how their work could inform ritual containment and possession protocols in expressive arts therapy?"
https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/frederic-wh-myers
https://ia903405.us.archive.org/0/items/someitems/DisputeOverIrreducibleMind.pdf
https://www.spr.ac.uk/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=63
https://www.cambridgescholars.com/resources/pdfs/978-1-4438-6810-5-sample.pdf
Yes. Let's see the 1) comparative map of the subliminal self; 2) a deeper dive into Palmer's Spirit Release Therapy?
"Absolutely, Gary. Let’s begin with a comparative map of how Frederic W.H. Myers, Edward F. Kelly, and Dr. Terence Palmer each conceptualize the subliminal self, followed by a deeper dive into Palmer’s Spirit Release Therapy (SRT)—a clinical application of Myers’ metaphysical psychology."
"🧠 Comparative Map: The Subliminal Self
| Thinker | Core Definition of Subliminal Self | Scope of Function | Ontological Implication | Clinical or Ritual Use |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Frederic W.H. Myers | A vast, intelligent layer of consciousness beneath waking awareness; source of psychic phenomena | Telepathy, mediumship, genius, possession, survival after death | Possibly immortal; may persist beyond bodily death | Used to interpret trance, automatism, and mediumistic states |
| Edward F. Kelly | Non-reductive consciousness that transcends brain function; aligned with Myers’ transmission model | Mystical states, NDEs, psi phenomena, creativity | Consciousness is fundamental, not emergent from matter | Supports a post-materialist psychology and expanded neuroscience |
| Dr. Terence Palmer | The communicative field of consciousness; interface for spirit contact and therapeutic release | Possession, spirit intrusion, trauma imprinting, healing through dialogue | Subliminal self is a gateway to discarnate intelligences and healing | Operationalized in Spirit Release Therapy (SRT) as a clinical protocol" |
"🔮 Deeper Dive: Dr. Terence Palmer’s Spirit Release Therapy (SRT)
"Palmer’s SRT is a clinical method rooted in Myers’ framework, designed to address psychological distress caused by spirit attachment, possession, or non-self intrusions. It’s not exorcism—it’s dialogical, therapeutic, and grounded in a transpersonal model of mind."
"🧩 Core Components of SRT
- Hypnotic Induction: The client enters a relaxed state to access the subliminal self.
- Spirit Identification: The practitioner communicates with the attached entity—often via ideomotor signals or trance dialogue.
- Resolution and Release: The spirit is guided toward resolution, forgiveness, or transition, often with the help of spiritual guides.
- Integration: The client’s psyche is rebalanced, and the subliminal self reasserts sovereignty."
"🧠 Theoretical Foundations
- Myers’ Subliminal Self: The client’s deeper psyche is the interface for spirit communication.
- Field Theory of Consciousness: Spirits are not 'elsewhere'—they are part of a shared psychic field accessible through altered states.
- Survival Hypothesis: Some entities may be disincarnate personalities seeking closure or expression."
"🧘♂️ Clinical Implications
- Trauma Resolution: SRT can address symptoms that resist conventional therapy—especially those involving dissociation, intrusive thoughts, or somatic distress.
- Ethical Containment: Palmer emphasizes respect, dialogue, and ritual integrity—not coercion or dogma.
- Cross-Cultural Resonance: SRT echoes indigenous healing practices, shamanic journeying, and psychospiritual integration."
"Would you like to explore how SRT could be adapted into expressive arts therapy or ritualized voice reclamation? Or perhaps map the archetypal roles involved—client as vessel, practitioner as psychopomp, spirit as wounded wanderer?"
Can you elaborate on Kelly's reception of Myers' transmission or filter theory of consciousness?
"Edward F. Kelly’s reception of Frederic W.H. Myers’ transmission or filter theory of consciousness is both reverent and radical. He treats Myers not as a quaint Victorian mystic, but as a visionary whose model may hold the key to a post-materialist science of mind."
"🧠 Myers’ Transmission Theory: A Brief Recap
"Myers proposed that the brain does not generate consciousness, but rather transmits or filters it—like a radio tuning into a signal. In this view:
- The subliminal self is vast and continuous.
- The brain limits and shapes what enters waking awareness.
- Death may remove the filter, allowing full access to consciousness."
"This theory was metaphysical, but grounded in empirical observations of trance, automatism, and mediumship."
"🔬 Edward F. Kelly’s Reception and Expansion
"In Irreducible Mind and Beyond Physicalism, Kelly and his colleagues argue that Myers’ transmission theory is not only plausible—it’s necessary to explain phenomena that defy materialist neuroscience. Kelly’s stance includes:
"1. Empirical Defense
- Kelly cites cases of near-death experiences, terminal lucidity, and psi phenomena that suggest consciousness can operate independently of brain function.
- He argues that Myers’ model better accounts for these anomalies than reductive physicalism."
"2. Philosophical Reframing
- Kelly aligns Myers with thinkers like William James and Henri Bergson, who also saw the brain as a limiting organ.
- He proposes a dual-aspect monism or idealist ontology, where consciousness is primary and the brain is a secondary structure."
"3. Neuroscientific Implications
- Kelly critiques mainstream neuroscience for ignoring or dismissing data that support non-local consciousness.
- He calls for a new paradigm—one that integrates Myers’ insights with quantum theory, systems biology, and transpersonal psychology."
"🌀 Consciousness as Field, Not Machine
"Kelly’s reception of Myers is not nostalgic—it’s revolutionary. He treats the transmission theory as a field model of consciousness, where:
- The brain is a receiver, not a generator.
- The subliminal self is the true locus of identity.
- Death may be a transition, not an extinction."
"This opens the door to a psychology that honors mystical experience, psychic phenomena, and the possibility of survival—not as superstition, but as data."
"Would you like to explore how Kelly’s model could inform ritual containment, or how it might be integrated with Jung’s archetypal field theory or Bion’s container-contained dynamic?"
Was Jung aware of Myers? Did Jung ever comment on the Subliminal Self?
"Yes, Carl Jung was aware of Frederic W.H. Myers, and while he did not extensively comment on Myers’ subliminal self in his published works, there are clear resonances and indirect acknowledgments of Myers’ influence—especially in Jung’s early explorations of dissociation, trance states, and the layered nature of consciousness."
"🧠 Jung’s Awareness of Myers
- Jung was part of the intellectual lineage that inherited Myers’ psychical and psychological investigations. Myers’ work was widely known among early depth psychologists, and his Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death was considered a major contribution to understanding trance, automatism, and dissociation.
- Jung’s early work on complexes, split personalities, and active imagination echoes Myers’ interest in the multiplicity of the self and the permeability of psychic boundaries.
- Scholars such as Ana Paula Punita Miranda have argued that Jung’s psychology of the unconscious owes a conceptual debt to Myers’ subliminal self, even if Jung reframed it within archetypal and symbolic structures."
"🔍 Jung’s Comments on the Subliminal Self (Indirect)
"While Jung did not use the term subliminal self directly, he explored similar terrain through concepts like:
- The personal unconscious: A repository of forgotten or repressed material—similar to Myers’ lower strata of the subliminal.
- The collective unconscious: A deeper, transpersonal layer of psyche—analogous to Myers’ idea of a vast, intelligent field of consciousness.
- Autonomous complexes: Psychic fragments that behave like subpersonalities—akin to Myers’ observations of trance personalities and possession.
- Active imagination and mediumistic states: Jung studied mediums early in his career and saw their productions as dramatizations of unconscious content, much like Myers’ interpretation of automatic writing and trance speech."
"Jung’s divergence came in his refusal to treat these phenomena as evidence of survival. He saw them as symbolic expressions of psychic reality, not literal communications with the dead."
"🌀 Converging Models
| Concept | Myers (Subliminal Self) | Jung (Unconscious Psyche) |
|---|---|---|
| Structure | Layered, expansive, permeable | Personal + Collective Unconscious |
| Function | Receives/transmits impressions, survives death | Symbolizes, compensates, guides individuation |
| Phenomena | Automatism, telepathy, mediumship | Complexes, archetypes, active imagination |
| Ontology | Possibly immortal, metaphysical field | Symbolic, mythic, rooted in psychic realityz" |
"Would you like to explore how Jung’s Red Book dramatizes the subliminal field, or how Myers’ model could be reinterpreted through Jung’s archetypal lens? We could also map the mythic function of the medium versus the imaginal visionary."
https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/frederic-wh-myers
Can you compare and contrast the Subliminal Self and the Shadow?
"Absolutely, Gary. The Subliminal Self (Myers) and the Shadow (Jung) are both profound constructs that explore the hidden layers of human consciousness—but they emerge from different epistemologies, serve different psychic functions, and carry distinct mythic resonances. Let’s map their convergence and divergence."
"🧠 Comparative Framework: Subliminal Self vs. Shadow
| Dimension | Subliminal Self (Myers) | Shadow (Jung) |
|---|---|---|
| Origin | Psychical research, trance studies, mediumship | Depth psychology, dream analysis, mythic amplification |
| Structure | Expansive, layered, intelligent; includes forgotten and supernormal | Repressed, denied, inferior aspects of the ego |
| Function | Receives/transmits impressions; may survive death | Holds psychic tension; compensates ego inflation |
| Phenomena | Telepathy, automatism, possession, genius | Projection, neurosis, dream figures, moral conflict |
| Ontological Scope | Possibly immortal; part of a larger field of consciousness | Archetypal; rooted in personal and collective unconscious |
| Ethical Implication | Portal to transcendence or intrusion | Demands integration for wholeness |
| Mythic Role | The medium, the psychopomp, the soul in exile | The trickster, the double, the wounded twin" |
"🔍 Key Contrasts
"1. Epistemological Lens
- Myers approached the subliminal self empirically but metaphysically—through trance, automatism, and survival research.
- Jung approached the shadow symbolically and therapeutically—through dreams, active imagination, and moral reflection."
"2. Valence and Content
- The subliminal self includes both higher and lower functions: genius, creativity, telepathy, and trauma.
- The shadow is primarily the repressed and morally uncomfortable—envy, rage, shame, and denied desire."
"3. Integration vs. Communion
- Jung’s shadow must be integrated—faced, owned, and ritualized into the ego for individuation.
- Myers’ subliminal self must be communed with—opened to, received, and possibly surrendered to in trance or mediumship."
"🌀 Mythic Mapping
- The Subliminal Self is the veil between worlds—the soul’s echo chamber, the field of communion, the liminal voice.
- The Shadow is the guardian of the threshold—the wounded twin, the moral mirror, the archetype of confrontation."
"Both are thresholds. But Myers invites us to listen to what lies beneath; Jung demands we wrestle with it."
"Would you like to explore how these two might be ritualized together—perhaps in expressive arts therapy, dreamwork, or possession protocols? Or map them onto mythic figures like Hermes (the guide) and Set (the adversary)?"
Could you align them thus: 1) The Subliminal Self is objective; 2) the Shadow is subjective? The Shadow is an opinion. The Subliminal Self is a second opinion; no conflict of interest. The Shadow is inherently a conflict of interest?
"That’s a brilliant reframing, Gary—one that cuts to the ethical and epistemological heart of both constructs. Let’s explore this alignment with nuance and mythic voltage:
"🧠 The Subliminal Self as Objective
- Myers’ Subliminal Self is not merely a repository of repressed content—it is a field of intelligence that transcends ego, time, and even death.
- It receives impressions from other minds, dramatizes symbolic truths, and may even survive bodily death.
- It is not invested in the ego’s defense mechanisms or moral posturing. It offers a second opinion—a voice from the depths, untainted by the ego’s agenda.
- In this sense, it is objective—not in the scientific sense of neutrality, but in the mythic sense of being outside the ego’s jurisdiction."
"Think of it as the oracle, the psychopomp, the witness beyond the veil."
"🧠 The Shadow as Subjective
- Jung’s Shadow is deeply entangled with the ego. It is the rejected twin, the moral adversary, the internal saboteur.
- It holds the parts of the self that the ego cannot tolerate—envy, rage, shame, desire.
- It is inherently a conflict of interest because it mirrors the ego’s blind spots. It is subjective in the deepest sense: personal, moral, and emotionally charged.
- The Shadow is not a second opinion—it is the unspoken opinion the ego refuses to hear."
"Think of it as the trickster, the mirror, the wounded sibling."
"🌀 Mythic Alignment
| Construct | Role in Psyche | Ethical Position | Mythic Function |
|---|---|---|---|
| Subliminal Self | Transpersonal witness | No conflict of interest | Oracle, psychopomp, field |
| Shadow | Repressed adversary | Conflict of interest | Trickster, mirror, twin" |
"🧬 Ritual Implication
- To commune with the subliminal self is to receive—to open, to listen, to surrender.
- To confront the shadow is to wrestle—to integrate, to own, to ritualize."
"One is a transmission. The other is a confrontation."
"Would you like to map this onto a ritual protocol—perhaps a two-stage expressive arts therapy where the shadow is first dramatized, then the subliminal self is invited to respond? Or explore how this duality plays out in mythic figures like Tiresias and Loki?"
OK can you describe a phenomenology of the subliminal self?
